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169 Learning From Heavy-Weight Entrepreneurs
In this episode, I share lessons from top business and marketing minds — and how we can apply them in the education space.
It’s easy to stay in our niche, but doing so can limit our growth. I explore what happens when we step outside and learn from others.
We cover pricing, client experience, creative thinking, and standing out in a busy market.
Takeaways
Loud voices don’t always reflect the majority.
Value justifies pricing — not what others are charging.
Client experience leaves a lasting impression.
Creative thinking and logic go hand in hand.
We don’t need to be everywhere to stand out.
Plan for dips in motivation to stay consistent.
Looking outside our niche keeps us fresh and relevant.
Sound bites
"Are we listening to the loudest voices or the right ones?"
"People remember how we made them feel."
"Emotions aren’t the opposite of logic."
Enjoy :-)
Sumantha
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👋🏽 Hello! I'm Sumantha McMahon and I've supported over 100 tutors and education business owners.
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© 2024 Sumantha McMahon
Transcript
📍 Recently, I've been having a lot of conversations with my clients and masterminders about the need to step outside of our niches and learn from others, from other industries, from just the way other people do things. You see, when we run a small business, we immerse ourselves in the industry that we are in, and that's great.
Sumantha::We make friends, we get to collaborate. There are lovely opportunities we learn. There are just so many advantages, but the one downside is that you can end up being in a bubble. So often business coaches will come outta the same space, which means the same questions and advice ends up just flying around, just circling around.
Sumantha::Now, having come from a corporate training background, before I was a classroom teacher. Learning from different businesses and marketing kind of heavyweights has always been something I'm quite sensitive to. In fact, at least once a week I will listen to something that's really focused from someone who doesn't speak in the education space, and I've gained so much from it.
Sumantha::So in this episode, I'm going to stand on the shoulder of Giants and share golden nuggets from some people who I really admire. And of course this is the Upgrade Your Education Business podcast. So I'll do my best to relate advice back to our niche. Enjoy.
Sumantha::Welcome to the Upgrade Your Education Business podcast. I'm your host, Samantha, and I'm so pleased you are here. As an education business owner, myself and a former teacher, I understand the nuances that only apply to us. So in this podcast, I share fluff free, tailored, and actionable ideas. That you can mold to suit your needs.
Sumantha::If you'd like to take this conversation further, please do reach out. I would love to meet you. And finally, it would mean the world to me if you could leave a review. That way you'll be helping me help more people. Thank you for tuning in. Enjoy.
Sumantha::I am gonna start with a quote. I'm gonna jump straight in and the quote I'm gonna share is the minority often have the loudest voices. And this is from Pete Gartland. Pete is one half of the duo, Andrew and Pete, who are probably best known for hosting Atomic Con. An amazing annual event for small business owners.
Sumantha::In fact, if you're a regular listener, you'll recall an episode a few weeks ago where I talked about my experience of going just earlier this year and why I've booked to go next year as well. I hope you are, and I hope I'll see there. Now, Pete actually dropped this line in a discovery call that TI was having with him, and here's how it came up.
Sumantha::I really want another pair of eyes on my business as it's in a place where it's established and it's growing and it's stable, but I want to make sure it's growing in the right direction for me. And as we were chatting, I told him about this one hesitation I had. Um, and it was related to something he mentioned.
Sumantha::I can't remember exactly what it was, but I, I kind of started the sentence with, you know, I hear people in my niche talking about X, Y, and Z, and I'm concerned about how this would land with them. So I mentioned something that I believed would hold me back from. Growing in a certain direction.
Sumantha::And this is when he said how the minority often have the loudest voices, and he shared how. Quite a few loud voices were telling him, Andrew and Pete, that Atomic Con should be a two day event instead of one. And they were going to go for it, but then they thought, let's just survey our audience. And they have a pretty big audience.
Sumantha::So they asked them and they found that the majority of people, I think he said over 90%, actually said they preferred it being a one day event. Otherwise, it would mean more time outta their businesses. It would be exhausting. Tickets would end up being more expensive. They'd have to pay for accommodation and so on.
Sumantha::So if they had listened to those loud voices and assumed that they represented the majority, they could have ended up making quite a detrimental decision. So when we think about our businesses, sometimes we are guilty of listening to the loud voices, assuming that they speak for everyone. Maybe, for example, you see how loads of people in your niche are charging very little, or how people who you'd consider your target customer are complaining about how much people are charging.
Sumantha::And so you assume that, well, you can't really go higher with your fees or maybe assume that it's because of your higher fees that people aren't buying. However, it may well be that the majority of your audience. Or the people who are attracted to you aren't attracted to you because you're cheaper or more expensive, but for other reasons.
Sumantha::Now, in these situations, it can be really hard to survey your audience, but I think it's a point really worth considering. Even if you're not sure that something is a fact, because you might be asking questions, for instance, in a Facebook group with thousands of people, but if you look closer, it's only a small handful of people who are really vocal, so they don't represent the majority, and therefore we shouldn't be making decisions based on.
Sumantha::A loud minority on those loud voices and things like surveying your audience, or not even your audience, but your clients, people who have worked with you, keeping in touch with them and making sure that you are really aware of how they're feeling. I think that that's where it really starts, because ultimately you can make decisions based on a hypothetical.
Sumantha::So you can say, well, I can't really increase my fees 'cause I've just priced myself out to the market. But the real question there is, well, what are you basing that on? Has anyone told you that? Have you surveyed your clients? Have you thought about how you can justify maybe charging more? Why someone would be okay with paying more?
Sumantha::Because that thing that you're offering suddenly. Has increased value. It's really solving their problem. So I think it's a really important thing for us to remember, given that we are part of communities, we participate, or maybe we listen and we just observe. Either way. Most of us are exposed to voices, to people's voices, and sometimes it's the same names that pop up time and time again, and we assume they're speaking for the majority, but actually maybe they're a minority.
Sumantha::Now my second one is a quote from one of my heroes, and that is Seth Godin. And he says, stop being everywhere and focus on creating something people talk about. Now, Seth Godin is one of my marketing heroes, and not just because he shares practical advice, because actually he often doesn't, he often shares the kind of advice that really makes you think and it cuts through the noise.
Sumantha::That's actually why he's one of my favorite people to listen to, and I like his books quite a lot. And something he has done is he's written a blog for Over, I Want, I think it's over 25 years, and it's a daily blog, and he often uses that as an example to talk about how in this world where we expect really quick results, where people are selling really quick results and quick solutions.
Sumantha::It's important to recognize that quick results are. A bit of a fallacy, and that's actually persevering with something that works and going all in with that is actually what gets you ahead. He often talks about this principle of persevering with something so that you are so further ahead that your competition wouldn't be able to catch up with you.
Sumantha::But this statement about. In his words, being remarkable and creating something that people talk about, I think is often overlooked because as business owners, we are confident in general that what we offer is really, really good. We wouldn't be selling it if we weren't confident about. It's worth and the value that it brings to the table.
Sumantha::And so we often don't think about analyzing whether we've created something that's so good that we almost don't need to talk about it because other people are doing it for us. Other people are talking about it now in the education space. I think this advice is incredibly interesting because sometimes we are in positions where people aren't going to spread the word because they want to keep us a secret, and when I speak to a lot of people in the entrance exam world, their clients often don't want to recommend them to other people because.
Sumantha::It's a high stakes situation and they don't want to share it with, with other people who they consider their competition. I've had clients in the past where I'm supporting them with their business and they've outright told me that they would love to recommend me, but they're hesitant because they want to keep me a secret.
Sumantha::So, although. I really like Seth Godin's advice, and I think there's a lot of truth in it. And actually to pad it out, he says the solution is to create something that needs other people or other things for it to work, because then that way word will spread. So I do like this advice and I think it's worth unpicking.
Sumantha::Um, but it's important for us to mold it to our situations, to our niche, to the challenges that we experience. And the fact remains that however we choose to encourage or influence things like word of mouth referrals, we have to really start with the basics. We could have. All the incentives in place, but ultimately people are only going to put their name against something that they really believe in.
Sumantha::So the reason I'm really shining a light on this is because. Something that I have come across Seth Godin talking about is to stop trying to be everywhere and focus on creating something that people talk about. And when we create something amazing for our clients where we're solving a specific problem, when we often think about the features and the things that we want to include and how much we want to charge, we think of the logistical elements of what we offer.
Sumantha::But sometimes we neglect. Experience side of things. When I recently went to the tutors association awards ceremony at dinner, the, the waiting staff would surround us. So they, they stood behind us. We were on a round table and they stood there ready to serve us, and they. One of them gave a nod and then they all placed our plates in front of us at the same time.
Sumantha::It was synchronized, so it was a lovely little bit of choreography, and a few of us were talking about it. But over the weekend I went to a wedding and the waiting staff started serving dessert. And they, it was really odd. They started giving three people out of 10 on the table their dessert, and then they just moved onto another table while the rest was still waiting.
Sumantha::And of course that feels a bit rubbish. You want to eat with the rest of the table. And it generally felt a bit confusing and I immediately recalled the experience I just had at the awards dinner. So in a moment of messy service, I immediately recalled an experience that I had. I wasn't thinking about the features, the meal. I wasn't thinking about comparing the taste of the two meals. I was comparing the experience that I was having, and we remember experiences when my husband asked me how the evening was.
Sumantha::From the awards, one of the things I mentioned that it was quite cool how the waiting staff served us, and so when we think of Seth Godin's advice, I think a really valuable takeaway is to consider the experience we give our clients. When I talk about things like automation, clients are often driven by their need to save time on admin tasks.
Sumantha::Now, of course, that's an important driver, but a dimension that I like to add. To that conversation is how our choices will affect our client's experiences, because let's say you're asking someone to book a discovery call with you, they're not yet your client, but it's an important touch point, and if that process is really smooth and really professional.
Sumantha::They immediately, before they've spoken to you, before you've sold them a thing, they immediately feel confident. You are creating an impression of what it might be like working with you. So even that part of the experience is a really important thing that's worth paying attention to.
Sumantha::Okay. My next kind of mic drop moment that I've heard from people I admire is that emotions aren't the opposite of logic, and that's from Rory Sutherland. Now, if you've never listened. Sutherland or read his books, it's very difficult to describe what he talks about because sometimes it feels like a bit of a ramble, but it's such a valuable ramble.
Sumantha::I suppose. The official line is that he's a very experienced and well renowned advertising expert executive, and he talks about behavior science. But the reality is whenever you hear him speak, he's just incredibly interesting. He points out those Oh yeah. Moments in a kind of like how a really good comedian makes you realize that you do something that you haven't really realized that you do.
Sumantha::He uses this whole concept of how emotions is. They're not the opposite of logic. He uses that as a springboard to teach us really powerful concepts. In his book Alchemy, he talks about this principle and he, one of the points he makes is that. Creative thinking is really important. Yes, there's a place for logical thinking, but we have to think creatively too when it comes to advertising, marketing, or even creating a new product or service.
Sumantha::In fact, he goes into the need for creative thinking when coming up with things that you are going to sell. And as a small business owner, I think that. Making decisions from an emotional standpoint or leaning on it on intuition or whatever you want to call it, as well as making decisions based on logic and facts, they're both really difficult, mainly because we don't sit in boardrooms with focus groups and teams where we really get to discuss ideas in depth.
Sumantha::Our team discussions happen mostly in our minds with ourselves, and if we are lucky, maybe we're with some colleagues or you know, we have a business coach who's that second brain in our business. But sometimes that's not even good enough. Now, something that I really like is that Rory Sutherland talks about a kind of overlap between emotions and logic.
Sumantha::He actually opens the book Alchemy with an example of a company who wants to come up with a fizzy drink that rivals Coca-Cola, and he says that logic would dictate that you create something that tastes the same or similar or better. He thinks about how you should package it in a way that where people are getting more for their money and so on.
Sumantha::These are all really logical things that you'd come up with. The opposite of logic is to come up with something that tastes a lot worse, is in a smaller can and is more expensive. And yet that's exactly what Red Bull did. So that doesn't seem like a logical decision, but Red Bull targeted their audience with a completely different message to Coca-Cola.
Sumantha::I dunno if you remember the adverts that used to be on TV about Coca-Cola. But they were always targeting how refreshing the drink was. They often showcase someone doing a hard day's work and taking a much needed break with a cold can of Coca-Cola. On the other hand, red Bull is a little bit more quirky with the tagline of how Red Bull gives you wings, and their message is that Red Bull gives you energy, gives you an energy boost when you need it.
Sumantha::So actually they didn't go. With logic completely or in a traditional sense, but they kind of did because they created something that targeted a very different need for their audience. They didn't say We're gonna rival Coca-Cola by giving them, you know, the same target audience, the same solution. We are gonna give them a different solution to a different problem.
Sumantha::So the reason I've dissected that example a little is because I don't think that the statement of how emotions aren't the opposite of logic is easy to think about or to apply, especially as small business owners. But when you think of that overlap, when you think about coming up with something through creative thinking that still meets the needs of your audience, of your target client.
Sumantha::It's actually that perfect blend between emotions, intuition, and logic. Something that I teach virtually all of my clients is how to have solid numbers in your business and to ensure that you do use them to make good decisions. Now, that's something that's based purely on numbers. It doesn't encourage you to live outside of the spreadsheet.
Sumantha::But it's important to balance that with the creative thinking so that you can make exciting and innovative decisions and be creative within perhaps a realm of safety. Now my next one, it's not really from a business owner, but it is from one of my favorite poets. I'm gonna read out the line, stormy or Sunny Days Glorious or Lonely Nights.
Sumantha::I maintain an attitude of gratitude if I insist on being pessimistic. There's always tomorrow. Today I am blessed, and that's from Maya Angelou now. She's one of my favorite poets and speakers and whatever other title she deserves. And this is something that I think is incredibly important for our mindsets.
Sumantha::I'm someone who has battled with weight loss for. All of their adult life. And actually when I was a young adult as well, and I have been that person who starts a diet or an exercise regime or both. And if there's one day when I slip, it's like the whole thing is canceled. I failed, and I have to start all over again, which, you know, I end up doing at a much later date.
Sumantha::Now, this isn't just. Annoying when it comes to personal challenges, but it can be detrimental to professional ones. This soundbite also resonated with me because I do follow things like the law of attraction, and I've always been aware that with an intense focus of gratitude and positivity, there's a risk of it being toxic, where you don't allow yourself to be human.
Sumantha::You don't allow yourself to feel negative emotions 'cause you're so scared. You will somehow manifest negative things because you are thinking negatively. And actually I think this is an area that gives things like law of attraction a really bad name, but this also applies to business. We are expected to be motivated.
Sumantha::In fact, we put that expectation on ourselves often, and if we don't feel motivated to do something that we think we should be doing, we feel guilty. We feel like we're not in a very good position, or we're not a very good business person, and we don't want to share that we are struggling with something like that publicly in case people judge us.
Sumantha::Now, something I talked about a while ago with the masterminders, which is why I also really connect with this beautiful statement from Maya. Is how I assume that I actually won't always feel creative or feel motivated. And so I actually put things in place to cover me , At the time when I was talking about how I, I just make the assumption I won't be motivated all the time. We were talking in the mastermind about marketing and a common concern that kept coming up was how to stay consistent with whatever channel, whatever method you've chosen when you have dips in motivation.
Sumantha::When you struggle to come up with ideas, and what I shared was how I assume that I won't. Be motivated all the time. I, I assume that I will have those dips and, you know, feel, you know, maybe a really busy week and I won't feel like doing the thing that I've committed to doing. I mean, I experienced that sometimes with the podcast.
Sumantha::And actually, if I give you an example, I wrote this episode out two weeks ago, partly. Because batch creating keeps things very sustainable, so that covers me for the times where I'm really busy or I'm not feeling particularly creative, and it means that I'm not under pressure to do those different things every single week.
Sumantha::Also I, I actually wrote this podcast episode out two weeks ago because I had a moment where I was feeling particularly creative, so I knew it was a good time for me to create content. That's when I'm at my best when I'm creating content, and it meant that I'd also covered myself for those times where I wasn't feeling motivated, where I wasn't feeling creative.
Sumantha::Maybe I was under pressure with other things, and I actually apply this to virtually. All of my marketing, all the things that I do, and when I say marketing, I'm talking about content that I publish. So even if I'm sending a broadcast to my email list that are, that's more spontaneous, they are still planned beforehand.
Sumantha::I've still made a note to kind of talk about this thing, or I've found a really interesting insight and I just brain dump. I brain dump my ideas so that if I want to write that email, I can go through those notes. I'm not sitting there with a blank canvas. Trying to brute force coming out with ideas. I also shared in the Mastermind, actually I shared this just yesterday, about how I share ex I I save, sorry, examples that I think are really good content examples, things that I find useful, things that inspire me.
Sumantha::Because then I have a bit of a swipe file to just look through. That creates those sparks of ideas in my mind. So if I'm ever struggling for ideas, but I need to create content, let's say it's for my podcast. Then I have a little scan through those and I get little ideas, and then that's it. I'm off. I can go ahead, I can write it.
Sumantha::The ideas are formed in my mind. Now, that's just one example. I've talked about creating content. I've talked about marketing, but if you've read The Compound Effect, you'll know that this is actually something that James Clear talks about in depth. He talks about giving yourself the best possible chances for success.
Sumantha::So if you want to go for a run every morning and you're struggling to get in that habit, he suggests setting your environment up to make it really easy in the morning. So you might put your running clothes and shoes by the front door so that you are passing it, so it's a reminder to get changed. So setting yourself up for success is one aspect of how I interpret what Maya Angelou is talking about.
Sumantha::But another aspect that I think is important is to give yourself grace. We are very hard on ourselves, aren't we? If we don't perform to the standard that we expect from ourselves every single day. The disappointment can be heavy, but giving ourselves space and permission to actually just have an off day, which is kind of what that quote is about, is so important because as she says, there's always tomorrow you haven't failed.
Sumantha::You don't have to cancel everything. So I hope you've enjoyed this episode, which has been slightly different for me. I try to select pieces of advice that help us from different angles, and if nothing else, I hope that it's made you think broader and appreciate how much we can learn from people who are outside of our industry, and they don't have to be big names. I've been inspired by people that you've never heard of who I've connected on different social media platforms purely. I find their content really interesting or I find what they do Fascinating. The point is, as a business owner and as an industry, there's a risk that we will stand still if we don't expose ourselves to the world that exists around us. And I hope this little taster has sparked your curiosity if it wasn't already there. Thank you as always for giving me your time, and you'll hear from me on Wednesday. Would you like to take this discussion further? Perhaps you have some questions or you'd like more ideas on tailoring your business. If so, book a free discovery call through the link in the show notes.
